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CoreyH

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Posts: 4

Location: United States Stockbridge
Occupation: Meat Cutter
Age: 37
#1   2014-01-26 20:42          
Hello everyone,
lately Ive been attempting to create my own set of tools, namely a set of tongs from some scrap rebar (I know rebar is basically junk, but i figured I could at least get the technique down) and ive run into the problem of the metal cracking, and sometimes breaking completely. I assume this is a case of weak, or bad steel. Is there another type of scrap I could practice on, say RR spikes, since they are generally at least considered a Medium quality steel. I realize of course this would take considerably more time drawing out, and shaping the metal to the desired shape, however time isnt much of an issue for me since I enjoy it all the same.

I eagerly await any suggestions or input
-Corey

cal

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Posts: 137

Location: United States Sharpsburg, GA
Occupation: Retired Programer
Age: 73
#2   2014-01-27 06:53          
Rebar can be usable but you need to work it hot and don't quence it, just let it air cool. One of the problems with rebar is that when they roll it to put all the cruves into it there can be stress points that become cracks. I really prefer to use plain carbon steel, A36 for practice. It costs a little more than scrap but at least you don't put in the effort just to have it break.
Cal Kohler

jguy

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Posts: 79

Location: United States Conyers, Georgia
Occupation: computer programmer
Age: 68
#3   2014-03-14 20:33          
Some things should be made from mild steel (tongs for example). A number of people use tool steel for tongs, but you have to watch out when you are cooling something you are holding with it!

I took a tooling class at the folkschool and the instructor's approach was to use 1045 steel for most tooling (it's cheap, you can harden it, and it does not need to be annealed. that makes it very forgiving). THe downside is that the tool will not last as long as if you used S7 or so (you get dozens of uses rather than hundreds) but as a hobbyist, something like that may last me a few years!

Another goodie is jackhammer bits. There's always some showing up in Iron-in-the-Hat.
Jim Guy

cal

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Posts: 137

Location: United States Sharpsburg, GA
Occupation: Retired Programer
Age: 73
#4   2014-03-18 07:32          
If you really want some tough steel, get a NASCAR axle from Paul Garrett up at the Folk School. It is pretty amazing stuff. Best of all it doesn't need any kind of heat treat just let it air cool. I've got a couple of chisels made from it. I also made a pair of tongs from it. We'll have to see what happens the first time they get quenched when hot from holding something. I don't think that will be a problem though because while tongs get too hot to handle, unless you're not paying attention they should never get any color.
Also when you cut it use an abrasive wheel. If you try any kind of saw, the steel wins. Another thing I learned about the axle steel is that you have to work it hot. Once it loses most of its color it gets very hard to move and you can crack smaller sections like tong bosses. Wonder how I know that one!
Cal Kohler

benbaker

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Posts: 9

Location: United States Marietta, Georgia
Occupation: Conductor at Norfolk Southern
Age: 47
#5   2014-10-17 14:00          
Something that saved me a good bit of metal was trying things out in plastilina clay. Not everybody likes this, and it doesn't work for all proecedures, but I'm a rank amateur, so anything that lets me practice is good. It performs better when cold.

As the man said, "When you make something ugly in steel it's ugly a loooong time."

ThomasABoucher

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Posts: 119
http://Boucherillustrations.com
Location: United States Alpharetta
Occupation: Illustrator
Age: 38
#6   2014-10-18 07:58          
I've tried the clay before. I always get frustrated with it when I use it. After a few minutes of being in my hand it gets to warm and soft and hard to work with. It's true though, it is a good way to practice. I have worked out a few things with it before working with steel. I've wondered about putting a bit of it in the fridge or freezer before working with it, but I haven't needed to use it lately, or rather I haven't brought myself to use it.
"Get 'em while they're hot!"

Dietrich Hoecht

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Posts: 51

Location: United States Clayton, GA
Occupation: piddles in metal, roams the woods
Age: 81
#7   2014-10-29 10:04          
Cal,

the NASCAR axle steel you refer to is Hy-Tuf brand from Latrobe Specialty steel. It is vaccuum remelted to remove any impurities, and it is also used for aircraft landing gears. Paul Garrett is surely the cheapest source.

cal

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Posts: 137

Location: United States Sharpsburg, GA
Occupation: Retired Programer
Age: 73
#8   2014-10-30 07:59          
Must of the really high quality alloy steels are what is called vacuum degassed. The 'heat' (what a batch of steel is called) is first melted in an electric furnace. Once the chemistry is gotten to an acceptable level it is tapped out into a special ladle at a very high temperature, somewhere close to 3100 degrees. It has to be that hot because the next step. The special ladle has a machined surface that sits on top of a large O-ring at the top of a large sealed tank. In the tank is another ladle to catch the finished steel. The tank has been sealed and almost all the air has been pulled out of it creating as close to a total vacuum as possible. The steel is then poured out of the bottom of the ladle, through the vacuum into the final ladle. While the final pour is happening, additional alloying stock is added to get the chemistry to the proper level. The vacuum causes the stream to flare and any dissolved gases to be pulled out thus creating a very clean, fine grained steel.
Back in a prior career I used to work for US Steel in a steel producing shop. We made some fancy steels and some tie plate stuff too. It just depended on what the Production Planning department wanted. All the 41xx, 51xx, and 86xx steels were degased. The fanciest steel we made was HY80 that was used for Trident submarine hulls. We also made about 4 kinds of stainless.
Cal Kohler

Dietrich Hoecht

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Posts: 51

Location: United States Clayton, GA
Occupation: piddles in metal, roams the woods
Age: 81
#9   2014-10-31 13:04          
Funny, Cal,

I worked for a while at Consarc Co. in New Jersey, in 1975. They made the electroslag remelt furnaces. You had a steel electrode - big stuff, a foot in diameter - and melted it down through a slag bath, sort of like flux. It made high purity steel, like for ball bearings. The Russians were the big competitor in this equipment market.

cal

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Posts: 137

Location: United States Sharpsburg, GA
Occupation: Retired Programer
Age: 73
#10   2014-11-02 17:37          
Our electrodes were 24 inch diameter graphite and if I remember correctly the transformers were 470 KVA. We made 200 tons at a time from 235 tons of scrap. All great fun, fire & flame, heavy equipment.
Cal Kohler

John Myers

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Posts: 73

Location: United States
Occupation:
Age: 97
#11   2014-11-08 19:54          
Corey If you want to see HOW tongs are forged try You Tube on your computer. Just enter "How to forge Tongs" and there is a WORLD of video to start you on your way. The only problem is TOO MUCH information. You will have to weed through the differing methods and pick out what suits you.
As to the steel used, some mentioned items are awfully tough to forge, I think that mild steel is good enough if you leave plenty of DEPTH in the reins right behind the flat part where the rivet is placed. It forges easier. If you have a power hammer to do the hard work use a higher carbon steel. That's my 2 cents worth.

cal

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Posts: 137

Location: United States Sharpsburg, GA
Occupation: Retired Programer
Age: 73
#12   2014-11-10 11:05          
John is right about the ease at which some steels can be forged. The tongs I made from axle steel were made at the Folk School using a power hammer. I do like them and may make another set next time I take a class.
Cal Kohler
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